10 comments
Hannah:
Thanks for your kind words.
Denis
Fascinating. So, just for the sake of argument, mind you, I'll assume a position, too.
To wit. Dear brother, you are guilty of a using an old debating trick: the false dichotomy, otherwise known as the either/or fallacy.
Either I get a better reason to engage my culture on this issue or I don't need to get involved; either I amend the constitution and bring the gospel into disrepute or I stand on natural law; either I turn to the Scriptures or to the state; either I make the state my idol or retreat into the church; either I strengthen marriages or engage in politics.
Are those really my only options?
Greg, my good friend.
Your post made me remember all those times we'd be at your house, or mine, we'd talk, and argue and yell at each other, laugh and then go trout fishing. Such sweet memories. Miss you.
But to your rebuttal. So clever of you, but in fact I have a solid position behind my opening statement, which was designed to get the conversation going. To wit, We live in a pluralistic and globalized culture, and one in which both processes are increasing with no sign of slowing down. This setting calls for a shift in our efforts in the public square because working for the public good (essential for just governance) will mean we cannot merely seek to promote what is best for our (evangelical) tribe. So, in fact we will find that these colossal changes in our culture do seem to present dilemmas for us, which will need to be resolved by going back to basics.
To take your last point as an example: the position I am adopting would argue we must strengthen marriages and model true community/relationships because it is central to our calling as God's people. In this way we become what Schaeffer called a "pilot plant." AND we engage in politics, not to ensconce our beliefs into law but to work open-heartedly for the common good for all. This may, in terms of marriage law, require compromises that to our biblical understanding of marriage, but we need not fear that since we will also be working to promote the understanding that the State is not supreme in all things, and must not be allowed to position itself such.
Now, yell and then let's meet in Chatfield and catch some trout.
Denis
Thank you for your post and the thoughtful conversation it is sure to provoke. It leaves me with some questions as to the scope of what you are addressing.
-Is your intent to focus mainly on whether Christians have an obligation to see such legislation made? I ask because I would understand that the governing authorities do have a responsibility to hold up God's created order (whether they recognize it or not) and the creation norm of marriage would seem to be part of the civil order they are called to uphold (as opposed to something like orthodoxy on the doctrine of atonement). I take your blog not as an "out" or pass for civil authorities, but as a reordering of Christian priorities in how they seek to address the issue of marriage (i.e. If your hope for marriage is in the state's authority, then you are vacating Christian responsibility to faithful witness and making the state your Savior). Have I understood your thrust correctly?
Then generally, and to the commenting audience, what are the some helpful means of demonstrating sexual obedience and marital fidelity to a watching world?
I wasn't shouting this time, brother. I promise. To tell you the truth I wasn't even certain this was a position you actually hold, but rather yet another of your "discernment exercises". And in my response I wasn't rejecting the proposal per se as much as responding to the way the proposal was made.
When I was a good pietistic young man I was told all sorts of things would bring the gospel into disrepute. For example when I was 17 I was told that quitting the high school football team would do this. I know it sounds ridiculous, but in small town Alabama where football is king, rejecting football meant fewer people took you seriously on any subject, including the gospel.
Of course, the gospel itself didn't suffer by my choice, but my credibility did, at least in the eyes of some people. Which brings me to what I think to be an important distinction.
What really brings the gospel into disrepute? Hypocrisy, saying one thing and doing another. Even post-moderns see it as toxic. Touting the sanctity of marriage while getting divorced really does bring the gospel into disrepute.On the other hand,if I take a position that is biblically sound but socially unpopular, I may be thought disreputable, but that's quite a different thing.The first type of disrepute is defined by the Lord, the second by our culture. The first I'm called to avoid as if it really is toxic. The second? Well, lets just say, disrepute- like beauty- is very much in the eye of the beholder.
Which brings me back to the subject at hand: should I do what I can to strengthen marriages? Sure. It's one of the hardest jobs I face in my role as elder. Should I work to redeem and restore how our culture views marriage, legally and in the media? Sure, but the toughest question you raised is, "How?" That's the question that is most practical, most interesting, most important, most divisive, and, of course, the most fun to discuss. Thanks again for raising it.
Alas! There are no trout in Texas!
Greg
I do apologize for not responding sooner to keep the conversation going. My excuse: wife in the hospital for six days while we were in CT, supposedly on vacation. Not what we expected. Thankfully, she is over her pneumonia and beginning to recover, our dear friend and assistant, Anita drove our car out there to help bring her home, and I am back at Toad Hall. Home never felt so good.
Ian:
Excellent questions and ideas.
It is true that government, as a sphere of creation made by God, is called to pursue justice, and true justice will never be contrary to God's word expressed in both creation and Scripture. That will certainly remain the Christian's concern as we attempt to be faithful as citizens within the political realm of life.
My concern in this blog post is to wrestle with the question of what Christian faithfulness looks like when the society has become so pluralistic that a biblical understanding of marriage becomes a minority view and perhaps is no longer used as the standard for legislation.
My proposal--which I suggested to encourage thoughtful debate--is that trying to achieve one good (a proper understanding of marriage in law) might become an impediment to a far greater good (a fair hearing for the gospel) if this political effort conflates Christian faith with a conservative political agenda. If the state misunderstands marriage that is sad, but hardly a tragedy since I look to the church to define it rightly.
So, no I am not giving the state a pass. I would urge church bodies--as the Roman Catholic bishops and my own denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America have done--to issue pastoral letters urging the state to do justice. But trying to use power politics to enforce a Christian understanding in law in a pluralistic culture, I am arguing, might prove to be counterproductive.
Thanks
Denis
Ian:
Just realized I did not respond to your last question. It's a good one, how to demonstrate marital and sexual faithfulness to a watching world.
John Seel has correctly noted that most evangelical voices seem to argue for "famine": no sex before marriage, no sex for gays, the emphasis always on the No. Yet this is not how the Scriptures present human sexuality, where it is seen as a good gift of God and reflective of our relationship with him through Christ. So, we must change how we talk about it and teach on it.
With so many broken homes, mentoring of young adults with warm hospitality by flourishing couples must become a central ministry.
And Wesley Hill's fine book, Washed and Waiting, should get a wide reading.
Theses are just a few ideas, not a program.
Denis
Greg:
I have such sweet memories of those healthy, vigorous debates when we were younger. And the trout here remain rigorous, too.
Your example is not quite to the point, since it involves individual choices (which we will always face) versus the problem of having the gospel brought into disrepute because of a society-wide association of that gospel with a particular political ideology and party. In an online interview with CT Ross Douthat says "it has to be possible to be Christian on contentious cultural issues without making it seem like Christianity is just an appendage of the Republican Party." That gets to my point, and the concern behind my proposal.
If the question is, might faithfulness lead to disrepute in the eyes of the world? Then the answer is Yes, and I don't think much discussion on the point is necessary. My question is, can disrepute occur needlessly because the gospel is in bed with a political agenda that obscures the gospel without solving the issue behind the political concern? Again, my answer is Yes.
Trying to wrestle with what that means is the hard part.
Denis
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